Letters from Green Island

December 21 2007

In defence of stupid, fat old white guy losers looking for a little happiness in their old age that they can't find at 'home'....

Re: Tourism built on abuse - The British government should take a stand against men who travel abroad to buy sex

(part of a discussion, a long discussion, following the article - sex stuff attracts a lot of people, for some reason)

I've been waiting and waiting, but not a WORD in defence of your average punter or whatever you brits call him who is the brunt of the attack here - old, fat, ugly, beer-swilling, unkempt, unattractive loser, using his great wealth to tragically coerce young, beautiful, innocent, besieged Thai girls (and those from other countries), into horrible dirty sex things. Damned dirty old sex. Oh, there's many posts, probably most, defending his right to be a 'sex tourist', but precious little taking exception to the sterotype of who the guy is.

It is, I grant you, a nice, memorable sort of stereotype for demonizing a fairly large demographic - but like most stereotypes, about 90% crap. One wonders why nobody in these 220+ messages has seemed to recognize this steroptype and its falsity, albeit one that many people seem to have bought into - the power of indoctrination on the tv-trained mind which can't do much thinking for itself, I guess. It seems important though - you can't really have a good discussion about reality if the object of your major demonisation is mostly a fantasy. It can be effective though, if you have enough control over your subjects, as a certain Adolf seemed to understand.

But I digress.

Actually, when you walk through Nana or Cowboy or PatPong or Samui or Phuket or other places in Thailand (I can't really speak for other countries), you see a few fattish, old white guys, sure (it's hard to tell a 'loser' from just looking at him - take a certain American president, for instance....) - but then you see a lot more younger guys (some fat too), middle aged guys, reasonably well dressed and decent looking, just out for a party in a place like they ain't never gonna see in downtown Smallville USA/UK/Canada/etc, looking to get a bit closer to one of these lovely young ladies from Paradise they've heard and read so much about.

And those young ladies are NOT chained to any bed, or anywhere else - they're mostly freelancers looking for a western man for the night, to see how much money she can get out of him. They're not chained down to be eaten by the lions, they're hunting their own prey. Sex is the nexus of the transaction, obviously, but another thing people don't seem to be aware of, mostly, in this 'conversation', is that sex in Thailand is not the Great Holy Forbidden Ritual For Procreation Only!!!!! and Further Confined To Those Sanctified By The Church ONLY!!!!! that it is in western countries - it's a very much more natural function - it's been somewhat corrupted by western influences the last few decades (something else the Americans brought to Thailand during the Vietnam war, bigtime commercial prostitution, via capitalist exploitation of anyone they can exploit (Thailand, for various cultural reasons, is a natural for capitalists, an aside I don't have time or space to get into here, but based on a cultural acceptance of a few big guys ruling a lot of little guys, the essence of capitalist exploitation wherever it happens)- as I was saying, attitudes towards sex have been somewhat changed here, as has most everything here, and not mostly for the better, since globalisation got serious and western 'values' started taking over everything, but the Thai inner mind and culture still understand sex quite a lot differently than the western inner mind, in which the beatiful and natural act of sex has been thoroughly corrupted by the teachings of the church, which everyone gets bathed in from birth, that sex is 'dirty' and 'shameful' and to be hidden etc etc. Thais don't really understand western attitudes about sex, but they're willing to make some money from it.

Why do young men from western countries come to Thailand, or other places, for a bit of sex? The writer here, and others, have some fantasy that they are evil people who cannot get a 'decent western woman' and who, apparently, relish the thought of evilly ravishing helpless, innocent young native women in far off places - but is the story so simple? I think not, really. Do you suppose it has anything to do with how hard sex is to come by in the christian-dominated western countries, where there is a huge campaign against sex, a huge schizophrenia in the public mind - all day long, 24/7, advertising says SEXSEXSEX!!!!! - but your parents and religion and laws and schools and political leaders and 'morality' say NONONOSINSINSIN!!!!! What is the nice middle-class boy supposed to do? Kids from the other side of the track know about sex early on, as it is their side of the track where the brothels are, along with the drugs and violence, and rich kids, of course, are another story altogether, as one of the American writers explained - but what about your majority of middle class guys in modern western countries, middle class schools and upbringing, surrounded by middle class institutions, indoctrinated in middle class ideas, full of hormones saying SEXSEXSEX, yet told by their mothers and sunday school teachers and school teachers and law enforcement people that YOU MUST NOT DO THAT!!!!! - but they HAVE to do it!!!!????? Masturbation is fine for awhile, and always when necessary, but they know about sex, and they want to try it at least a bit - what to do?!?! There are a few girls who put out, but the jocks have most of them. You can apparently get regular sex if you get married, but they're told not to do that too, until they finish university and get a good job and can afford a family, etc. There are a few jokers out there who seem to sleep around quite a lot, the good-lookers, fast talkers etc - but like the top-level jocks, something of a minority. No, the great majority of middle class guys are basically shit out of luck, as far as sex goes, before marriage.

And they have another problem too - unlike most jocks or fast talkers, most middle class guys are sort of decent types, and have had drilled into their heads the idea of fidelity, and know that if they sleep with a girl, then it should only be the girl they plan to marry, and soon. But if you can't get married until you finish at least high school, and preferably university - and most girls willing to have sex are already fully scheduled with the jocks etc - well, what exactly are you supposed to do with all of those raging hormones? It's a hard time and place, in western 'christian' countries. My sweet left hand indeed.

(Yea, I've read the posts here from guys who have said they never paid for sex - good on ya. You're obviously the aggressive types, so I'd be pretty sure you haven't gotten married early to your one true love, one sexual partner in your life sort of thing - how many girls have you lied to in your journey, sleeping around Alfie-style, promising them marriage and telling them you loved them, then laughing in their faces as they cried when you left them? I know a lot of young guys who are just too decent to engage in this kind of shit, and don't, out of consideration for the girls. Personally, your kind of character doesn't impress me much - if you've slept with a lot of women, and not been paying for it - then the odds are pretty strong you're leaving a pretty messy trail behind. Which, of course, you'd be somewhat less anxious to talk about, at least in a forum like this, although I'm sure you have your parties with like-minded predators, having great laughs about the bitches you've left crying etc.)

But now, in the modern world, with very available transportation to places like Thailand, and bars just full of young honeys very willing to hop into bed with you for a pretty small amount of American dollars - well. Add that to the young western male who does not want to lie to women for sex, and does not want to get married but does want to get laid, without any guilt and without any damage - seems like an obvious answer. As prostitution has always been, in less prudish countries than the ones dominated by the current christian mythology.

A simple commercial transaction, in a place where you don't have a thousand year history of religious nuts hammering everyone with the idiotic idea that SEX IS BAD SINFUL DIRTY YOU HEATHEN!!!!!, and a nice young lady looks after you, and you walk away happy in the morning, as does she. No 'betrayed' young 17-year old in Hometown USA/England/etc, no marriage that is never going to work because you're gonna wake up some morning, just a girl who has made as much in one night with you as she would in a month behind the cosmetics counter at the local department store, taking advantage of her good luck to be able to make this money. (Sure it would be nice if a big bank account just appeared out of nowhere and she didn't have to sell her body for it - but then, that applies to pretty much every modern office worker who hates their job, doesn't it? You do what you can handle that you can get the most money for - that's just life in the modern capitalist world.)

Most of the time - sure there are exceptions, there are asshole guys out there who abuse women, and young women who would rather not be selling themselves, but it's bad logic, when we are looking for the truth, to pretend that these small subsets represent the majority. And don't forget, as some have mentioned, there are women out there who'll take the money and run before putting out too - poor unassertive customer be damned. There's lots of those to feel sorry for too (yea, I know, if they weren't trying to do something so terrible as hire a prostitute they wouldn't lose their money.)

Anyway, all I'm trying to say is let's get a realistic view of the players here, and get away from the stereotypes presented in the article - she picks a small subset from one particular place, and presents that as the whole. A very false picture, as is the entire article. Another writer could as easily pick another (and much larger, I think) subset - let's imagine a Thai girl from a family poor enough that she sees prostitution as one of her best choices to make the money she needs for her mother's operation or to put her sister through school - she has a pretty bleak life to look to otherwise. A Thai husband from that class (young working class male, not well educated, pretending to be street tough, doing the 'look at me the big man!!' stuff they all have to do in this class in every country, i.e. football hooligans in Brit, street gangs in Toronto or Detroit with their 'ho's', etc) is going to treat her like a chattel, her only home in some slum, spend his nights drinking and whoring with his friends, cheat on her regularly, give her a life of poverty and hard work and a whole herd of kids to raise in poverty, probably sooner rather than later bring her a 'special gift' from an even cheaper prostitute he has gone to some night drunk, and basically make her life hell. Or if she's lucky enough to have some looks, she can find a western man (older or younger) who will love her because she is maybe the best thing that has ever happened to him, give her a decent life financially that she could basically never hope for otherwise, be true to her, give her money for her family (whom she is expected to support regardless - that is why many of them go into prostitution in the first place), and not be that demanding on her sexually.

No, that more ideal situation does not happen all the time either - but it does for a lot of these girls. And people like the writer of this article need to spend some time asking themselves why they are so adamantly, viscerally it appears, opposed to such things? It's not because they are 'morally wrong or repugnant' - as long as they are more or less free actions between adult people, it is not up to her to decide what is moral or not for everyone else in the entire world, particularly when her 'morality' is based on the 'teachings' of a mythological 'god' - many younger women in every culture choose older men because they are more financially and emotionally secure, and younger men are more inclined to be violent and cheating. Many older men naturally like the attractions of younger women as well - and who the hell is this writer to say no to them? (One other thing I don't have time to get into - but are writers like this one afraid of losing their own 'sex slaves' in their own old age?!? "Stan! Did you put the garbage out? Yes dear..' - is she a bit pissed off because Stan decided he'd rather have a quiet, nice-looking Thai girl to look after HIM in his old age, rather than spend it looking after some Brit harridan? Hmmmmmmm)

If you want to divert into men who are abusive to women, then I'm with you all the way - do your worst, I won't complain, I think any sort of violence one human inflicts on another should be stopped - any man who phsycially abuses a woman or child should be hung up in the nearest public square and have bad things done to him - very bad things. And if you want to take a run at doing something about the poverty that drives many women into prostitution in the first place, in both developing and developed countries, then again I am with you all the way - NOBODY should be coerced into a life they find unpleasant or worse because of a lack of money. But remember, you might want to start a little closer to home - there are a lot of poor people in England, if I'm not mistaken, and certainly in Canada and the US, who are living extremely unpleasant lives because of poverty, working at jobs they hate because of that poverty, which is another kind of prostitution, really. And if I'm not mistaken many of them turn to 'real' prostitution as well - there might be a bit of work, or quite a lot of work, for you closer to home indeed. Or look even at your factories and service industries there - how many people are living the Thoreauvian life of 'quiet desperation' right there in whichever western country you are reading from? You know, the ones living, or barely living, from paycheck to paycheck, fear and hopelessness shining forth from dull eyes, hating every minute of their soul-destroying job and the asshole boss giving them things to do each day they hate - can you do anything about these people? Or do you even care?

It's a big, hard capitalist world out there, and there are far, far worse things going on than young women making some money by making men happy for a few hours - and making themselves happy as well, as often as not, as happy as any of us are in this dysfunctional little world we have allowed the capitalists to build around us.

Get, as they say, Julie, a life, willya? Try and figure out why you are so suppressed about sex (serious, that would be a very worthwhile endeavor, with wide-ranging applicability you could then turn your aggressive writing talents to, taking a run at the religious indoctrinators who cause such huge problems in our society), and leave those who know what they want and make some effort to find it, alone (and no I'm not supporting pedophilia either - but adult sex between consenting adults only is none of your prudish little business whatsoever - nobody elected you moral arbiter of the world, and as this little discussion would hopefully make clear to you, not many are willing to accept you appointing yourself to such a position). And once you really start to understand a few things, go after the Big One, the Big C in our society - the Cancer of Capitalism. Now there is a fight worthy of everyone's attention - the most dangerous enemy we have ever faced, who has almost gained complete victory, over people who do not even understand the danger they are in.

They're Building a Box - and You're In It - you can read it here . Go get em tiger.
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